Roundup: more on Finkelstein, Carter video
Posted on April 10 2007 by Cecilie Surasky under Alan Dershowitz , Educational Institutions , Norman Finkelstein.[Editor’s note: There are times when I will link to stories that I believe are of interest to readers, but I may have neither the time nor the inclination to either look into or judge the merits of the case. These stories often appear, but not always, as quick links in the Roundup section. In these cases, it is my assumption that readers are smart enough to make up their own minds-you can use the comments section to bring in additional information and debate the issues.
But when it comes to debating Muzzlewatch or Jewish Voice for Peace opinions, a good rule to follow is if you haven’t seen us state an opinion, don’t assume you know what it is. After several months of watching folks do just that, sometimes projecting onto Muzzlewatch and Jewish Voice for Peace things we’ve never said, or positions that actually violate our policies, I felt it worth pointing out. ]
Peter Kerstein has this exclusive, the full unedited report by Finkelstein’s colleagues in which they examine Dershowitz’s 50 something page dossier of charges. Makes for interesting reading.
On YouTube, you can catch Norman Finkelstein give a talk at Harvard (Is Jimmy Carter an anti-Semite?) “which he was supposed to give at Brandeis University.” (This video is in 5 parts)
You can also see Carter give his famous talk at Brandeis, otherwise known as the talk that lost Brandeis at least $5 million in donations, according to Jewish Week.
Cartoonist Tony Auth gets a chance to show he’s not an anti-Semite, gets welcome reception from Philadelphia section of the National Council of Jewish Women.
Richard Silverstein of Tikun Olam is on the front page of today’s New York Times because of the impersonator blog set up to mock him after he got Masada2000 taken down.
Simply Appalling is amazed at conservative columnist Robert Novak’s new take on apartheid after a visit with the Palestinians.
This one is not directly about muzzling- but Harvard’s Sara Roy has written an absolutely stunning essay about Jews, Judaism and the Lebanon war that left me speechless. If you want to understand what the “Jewish Divide” is really about, read her piece. Hers is a deeply moral voice.
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April 10th, 2007 at 11:14 pm
Thanks for linking to the blogger civility story in the NYT. Partly as a result of the story, both my local news radio station & one of our local dailies will run stories on Blogger.com’s refusal to take down this blog site which uses pornographic language placed in my mouth to defame me (among other things).
April 11th, 2007 at 7:28 am
Just a correction. My family name is Kirstein, not Kerstein. Have a nice day.
April 11th, 2007 at 8:55 am
Perhaps this site should change its name to FinklesteinWatch, given how much real estate has been dedicated to the good professor’s tenure issues in DePaul.
A couple of random thoughts of my own:
* Am I the only one who finds it ironic that a site slamming a Harvard professor for trying to interfere in another university’s decision making process is also posting the names of hundreds of academics around the country who have signed petitions or sent in material in support of this same professor?
* Having seen the results of many tenure debates and disputes over the year, this is the only case I can think of where hundreds of academics and others have chosen to support a tenure decision through petitions and other campaign activities. While this would seem a strange tac in a tenure dispute involving even the most renowned scholar, it makes perfect sense in the context of a political campaign, having little or nothing to do with the quality of anyone’s scholarship (or lack thereof).
* Just as an FYI, when I was communicating with Presbyterian allies during last year’s divestment defeat with the PCUSA, I received information (admittedly anecdotal) that one factor swaying decision makers in the church to reject divestment was the shock they received discovering their 2004 divestment decision brought them into the crosshairs of some unpleasant characters, notably Norman Finkelstein. Just something to keep in mind as Muzzlewatch/JVP continues to make the DePaul tenure debate the focal point of this web site.
April 11th, 2007 at 12:55 pm
jimmy carter “the great emancipator” maybe mr carter can emancipate the united states from being enslaved to aipac and their wishes.
http://www.jta.org/cgi-bin/iowa/news/article/20070406cartersaward.html
WASHINGTON (JTA) — Mideast peace is possible only with forceful U.S. engagement, former President Carter said as he received an award for speaking out on controversial topics.
Carter — whose recent book, “Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid,” infuriated much of the Jewish community with its
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allegedly one-sided presentation of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict — addressed some 400 people in Washington on April 4 as he received the Ridenhour Courage Prize.
“History has shown that progress is possible only if the United States of America assumes its historic role as honest broker between Israel and her enemy,” Carter said at the National Press Club, lamenting what he described as a six-year lapse in substantial peace efforts. “To play that essential role, America must not be seen as in the pocket of either side.”
Critics have said that by eschewing Clinton-era micromanagement of the peace process, President Bush has allowed the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to fester, feeding into other problems in the region as well
April 11th, 2007 at 4:42 pm
thank you for posting the youtube links, i am listening now. he is very concise.
April 12th, 2007 at 5:22 pm
perhaps this site should be named “israel, the myths and the truths behind the zionist lies.
n a not-so-surprising newsreport, the Palestinian Independent Commission for Citizens Rights (PICCR) reported that Israeli occupation soldiers forced 68 pregnant women to give birth on road blocks after barring them from crossing as they were being transferred to hospitals and medical centers.
Quoting Saed Bannoura’s report on IMEMC:
http://imemc.org/article/47767
Also, the PICCR said that the Israeli procedures complicated the lives of the Palestinian civilians including pregnant women by enforcing harsh conditions and carrying illegal practices at these checkpoints.
Since the beginning of the Al Aqsa Intifada on September 28 2000 until July 2006, 68 pregnant women had to give birth at checkpoints, and that 34 infants and 4 pregnant women died on these checkpoints.
Nothing can justify this but brutality. It is nothing less than a war crime. Imagine the mother and here newborn infant dying due to deliberate, designed, intentional, intended, purposed, and calculated violation on one of the basic human rights.
One would ask: Do Pregnant Women and Infants Have Rights?
- According to Universal Declaration of Human Rights:
http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html
Article 25.
(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.
The special care here are road blocks and denial of medical service.
- The Right to Reproductive and Sexual Health:
http://www.un.org/ecosocdev/geninfo/women/womrepro.htm
The 1994 International Conference on Population and Development in Cairo and the 1995 Fourth World Conference on Women held in Beijing defines reproductive health as:
[…] Implicit in this last condition are the right of men and women to be informed and to have access to safe, effective, affordable and acceptable methods of family planning of their choice, as well as other methods of their choice for regulation of fertility which are not against the law, and the right of access to appropriate health-care services that will enable women to go safely through pregnancy and childbirth and provide couples with the best chance of having a healthy infant (para 72).
The Israeli occupation forces should feel ever so proud of itself for this record!
April 13th, 2007 at 3:27 am
The latest Finkelstein-Dershowitz spat regarding Finkelstein’s tenure application made today’s NYTimes.
April 13th, 2007 at 12:10 pm
It should again be noted that the fake Silverstein blog was set up two years ago. Look at the dates. Not much has been posted there so that may have confused some of you.
The blog had nothing to do with the Massada2000 events other than that is when it was discovered.
April 13th, 2007 at 12:35 pm
Why do ambulances need to be stopped at checkpoints? Perhaps because in violation of norms that existed even prior to the Geneva Conventions, terror groups were caught numerous times smuggling suicide bombers and weaponry through checkpoints in ambulances.
That, along with the child abuse of sending youth to the Gaza border fence to probe for wekanesses, and along with the child abuse of introcrinating children to worship suicide bobmers as heroes, has been the hallmark of Palestinian terror.
Before 2000 and the preplanned outbreak of the terror war against Israel (even the PA admitted that Sharon’s visit to the Temple Mount was simply a pretext for what they planned as soon as Arafat refused the Barak-Clinton plan at Camp David), there were no checkpoints, so there were no babies born in ambulances because they couldn’t get through the checkpoints.
And did anyone notice that with the billions upon billions of dollars in aid that flowed to the PA after 1993, somehow no hospitals were built? What did that aid money get used for? Payments for terrorists, weapons, dozens of “security forces”, Mercedes for officials, and of course Arafat’s private bank account.
April 13th, 2007 at 3:53 pm
why do they use kids as shields…those brave zionists …the mighty will tumble this we shall see.
Israel’s army suspended a commander who allegedly used Palestinians as human barriers.
“Following the incident in which Israel Defense Forces soldiers apparently made prohibited use of civilians, Central Command chief Maj. Gen. Yair Naveh ordered the suspension of the commander of the mission from all operational activity, in addition to the ongoing investigation into the matter,” an army statement said Friday.
Video footage showed troops patrolling the West Bank town of Nablus on Wednesday ordering youths to stand in front of their vehicle to keep it from being stoned. Israel’s Supreme Court banned the practice in 2005.
Associated Press Television News filmed a similar scene in February, leading the army to launch a criminal investigation.
April 14th, 2007 at 1:50 pm
john doe, so you’re saying when israelis break the law there are criminal investigations and commanders are suspended.
what happens when palestinians purposefully target civilians? are there inquiries and investigations? or are they lauded and applauded?
April 14th, 2007 at 9:31 pm
Why do ambulances need to be stopped at checkpoints? Perhaps because in violation of norms that existed even prior to the Geneva Conventions, terror groups were caught numerous times smuggling suicide bombers and weaponry through checkpoints in ambulances.
There is one documented instance where the IDF found a group using an ambulance to smuggle weapons. There is another case where a Red Crescent driver, Wafa Idris, carried out a suicide bombing. I wouldn’t call that “numerous times.”
If the only purpose of checkpoints is to keep out suicide bombers, then why are they located throughout the West Bank, rather than concentrated around the Green Line?
Before 2000 and the preplanned outbreak of the terror war against Israel….there were no checkpoints, so there were no babies born in ambulances because they couldn’t get through the checkpoints.
Sorry, you’re just wrong. Let me quote Amira Hass on this:
April 15th, 2007 at 12:19 pm
the moment the PA gets its act together, join the family of nations, renounce violence, accept all the countries on the planet that the UN and other countries recognize, use their considerable donations to build hospitals and a government, etc., they can fix their own borders and control them however they like.
israel doesn’t like being there, or the checkpoints. they have had to do them as a response to terrorism. as soon as the PA gets serious, israel will stop.
April 15th, 2007 at 3:20 pm
israel doesn’t like being there
Wow….you really have drunk the Kool-Aid! If you believe Israel has no interest in the West Bank, then perhaps you can explain why Israel has placed over 200,000 settlers throughout the West Bank (excluding East Jerusalem)? Or why it expropriates Palestinian water?
I will concede that it takes two to tango. For example… if the Palestinians were willing to give up control over their land, water, and human rights, then there would be indeed be peace. However, I believe that this is neither a moral or realistic position.
April 15th, 2007 at 9:44 pm
yes there are settlements, although we have seen at least twice in history that israel is willing to dismantle settlements for peace. in any case, the borders have not been agreed to mostly because the palestinians aren’t willing to accept any borders at all. they were offered 97% (with the remaining 3% coming from israeli land) and they were turned down. when the PA wants to talk borders, israel is willing.
if they wanted the whole thing, they would be controlling the whole thing. israel wants as little to do with it as possible, but it will do what it has to for security.
as for water, why don’t the palestinians have water? i know you want to blame israel for everything, but the PA has gotten billions of dollars in aid, and they haven’t built hospitals or water treatment plants or any other services for their people. israel has. and human rights? you mean honor killings and glorification of violence and dressing up children in suicide belts? please. everyone knows arabs living in israel have much better lives and many more rights than arabs in palestinian-controlled lands.
April 16th, 2007 at 12:25 pm
There is so much gross misinformation and distortions in the message immediately above that I’ve decided it’s time to put our friend Frank on extinction schedule, i.e. no more renforcement of his ‘debate’ on this board. Of course that’s my own reaction but it’s worked with other trolls on this board. Anyone wanna join me?
April 16th, 2007 at 5:38 pm
Good idea, Alan.
April 16th, 2007 at 6:06 pm
People have forgotten or (perhaps never knew) that Israel has returned more territory taken in the Six Day War than it has retained. That was the Sinai to Egypt. Israel withdrew its settlements and gave up the oil wells. Of course, people also forget that Egypt would not accept Gaza back. It was a deal breaker.
April 17th, 2007 at 11:38 pm
More on Dershowitz at
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/04/17/584/
where an analysis is made of Dershowitz’s “measured” attacks on Human Rights organizations that don’t support his world view. Dershowitz’s attacks on the scholarship of Finklestein, given his own “fast and loose, whatever it takes to win” school of scholarship would be amusing if not for the stakes involved.
April 18th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
“I’ve decided it’s time to put our friend Frank on extinction schedule”
did someone say something about muzzling?
what’s the matter, can’t take the heat? can’t debate real issues? looks like you got dumbstruck, unable to respond, and your only reaction is a puerile one; take your ball and go home.
that’s muzzling, plain and simple. lol.
April 19th, 2007 at 12:24 pm
wow, did he really say “extinction schedule” on yom hashoah?
that is really disturbing. talking about making jews extinct, on holocaust memorial day.
i guess the truth about these jew haters is really coming out. no hidden agenda there, huh?
April 19th, 2007 at 2:48 pm
I think you’re kidding, but if not Google it or get out your old Psych textbook. Not everything is about the Holocaust.
April 19th, 2007 at 3:37 pm
not kidding.
when someone who is critical of the existence of israel starts talking about the extinction of jews, it is not a joke.
April 19th, 2007 at 9:51 pm
Ok, fine, wallow in your ignorance and paranoia. Yes, there’s an antisemite behind every bush. Boo!
April 20th, 2007 at 1:30 pm
you’re insensitive about the holocaust, yet i’m ignorant and paranoid. okee dokee smokee.
no there’s not an antisemite behind every bush. (though i sorta want to run with the pun.) but if you think antisemitism doesn’t exist, i’m not the one who’s ign’ant.
April 20th, 2007 at 5:12 pm
Yes, it exists, just as your irrational hatred for the Palestinians, another form of antisemitism, exists. But when Alan Cheney uses a psychology term and you jump to the conclusion that it’s an antisemitic term, it’s you who are ignorant by the very definition of the word. And yes paranoid.
You’re just never, ever wrong are you?
April 20th, 2007 at 7:57 pm
sure, i’m wrong sometimes, but not as often as you guys. whatever gave you the idea that i hate palestinians? i said nothing of the kind. and i didn’t call alan an anti-semite for using that term, i just said it was insensitive to use the word extinction. i don’t care if it’s some technical term, he didn’t use it technically.
(of course when it is used, it refers to lab rats or pigeons or some other poor critter in some lame skinner lab. so it is demeaning and dehumanizing. it’s also a red herring, terribly besides the point, and an evasion of real debate.)
have a good day.