Walid Shoebat, no friend to Muslims or Jews
Posted on February 9 2007 by Cecilie Surasky under Educational Institutions , Foundation for the Defense of Democracies.The Jewish Community Relations Council in San Francisco gave us a heads up about this story, suggesting it would make a good Muzzlewatch entry. According to CAIR’s own press release:
The Sacramento Valley chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR-SV) today called on campus police at the University of California - Davis (UC Davis) to detain a speaker who openly states that he has committed acts of terror.
The UC Muslim Student Association also joined in the call, right before Shoebat was to appear before a sold-out UC audience.
At first glance, it seemed to make sense for Muzzlewatch. Walid Shoebat, a self-proclaimed former terrorist and Palestinian, who had converted to evangelical Christianity and discovered a new love for Israel, certainly had a right to speak at a public university, even if one disagreed with him.
But there was another question about Walid Shoebat, a longtime favorite on the Israel-right-or-wrong speaking circuit. Why exactly did CAIR and the MSA want him detained?
It was true, in an age of hyper-vigilance about terrorism, when even nuns get stuck on airline watch lists, and Muslim academics have a hard time just getting into (or back into) the country, it does seem odd that a supposed former terrorist who admits killing Israelis is running around the country, popping up on Fox and CNN, with nary a care in the world about getting hauled in by some enforcement agency.
But the real issue, it seemed, which CAIR and the MSA should have kept focused on, was that Shoebat is a religious extremist bigot who doesn’t deserve a platform at a public university. In fact, the question really should be, why are groups giving this guy even a second of airtime?
(By the way, he was invited to UC by the campus chapter of the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, which as we reported earlier, is part of the “Carter was bought by Arabs” smear campaign.)
If anything, that CAIR and the MSA felt they had to resort to the PR tactic of calling for Shoebat’s detention to get anyone to notice is a disgusting indictment of the fact that nobody else really seems to care if this guy is an Islamophobe. Hating Muslims just doesn’t rank as anything to get, you know, worked up about.
But there’s more.
To understand how disturbing it is that Jewish groups promote a Christian Zionist like Shoebat, it helps to understand the end times belief.
Josh Nathan-Kazis, a reporter for New Voices, the “only national magazine written by and for Jewish college students,” wrote:
As an evangelical Christian, Shoebat has a vision that goes beyond annexing the entire West Bank–a vision that he avoids mentioning to his Jewish audiences. In private, though, Shoebat explained that he believes there will be “a great battle at the end…the children of Ishmael versus the Jewish community. Christians believe [the Jews] will…recognize that Jesus is the Messiah in the end.” Then he added, “but that is beside the point, this is not my agenda in the universities.”
Just to be clear, the belief is that Jews will either convert or be incinerated so the Messiah can return. Peace, reconciliation and happy Jews are not exactly end-time goals.
Nathan-Kazis continues later:
Keith Davies, an Irish Jew now living in Pennsylvania, is Shoebat’s agent and tour manager. Davies has no qualms about sending Shoebat to speak to Jewish groups without mentioning his Christian Zionism: all that matters, Davies says, is Shoebat’s willingness to speak for Israel. But Davies clearly feels that if attention is called to his evangelism, Shoebat’s credibility may suffer: immediately after I interviewed Shoebat and asked about his religious beliefs–particularly pressing him on details of his Christian Zionism–I received a call from Davies instructing me not to mention those beliefs in this article. If I did, Davies warned, it would “hurt Israel.” And Davies is protective of his own image as well; upon being emailed the quotes to be attributed to him in this article, Davies replied, “This is a disgusting article and I will [not] have anything further to do with you.”
Shoebat wrote about his beliefs in the book “This is Our Eden, This is Our End,” which he co-wrote with Mohammed Altaf, a former Sunni Muslim who also converted to Christianity. Its clear why it probably wasn’t a best-seller, with chapters like The Angel of the Bottomless Pit, The Signs of the Anti-Messiah and The Abomination of Desolations. This is from the introduction written by Altaf:
Later Walid and I both decided to create a website on the internet [ED note: definitely explore this site], http://www.abrahamic-faith.com, to propagate the truth to the world about what is coming to pass. Our aim is not to spurn hatred or draw enemy lines, far from it, our aim is to show all people the deception that they have been lured into, whether they be Muslims who do not recognise the path of self-destruction that they have chosen so that all may be touched by the light of life and Christians who have not discerned the signs of the times.
But what really got my attention, and likely CAIR’s attention, was chapters like these:
Chapter 4. Satan’s master plan to use Islam to deceive the world
A. How are the Muslims deceived? Our Messiah is their Anti-Messiah
B. Who is the Gog of Ezekiel and how does he fit Islam?
C. Is the Messiah coming back to rescue Israel and annihilate Islamic forces?
D. Are the Magog Russians Slavs or Islamic Turkic Muslims?
E. Then who are today’s Russians?
Chapter 5. Is The End Time Beast Islamic?
A. Psalm 83 – Is it referring to Europe? Or Islamic nations?
B. The Binding of Satan and the entire Muslim world – Is this true?
C. Psalm 74 – It cannot be Europe?Chapter 6. Mecca the Harlot City
A. The Turks in History tried to destroy Mecca but can it happen again?
B. Can the Muslims fight the Christians and Jews when they claim to be peaceful?
C. Anti-Messiah will change times and laws?
Building a lucrative speaking career in the Israel-right-or-wrong world, by whipping up hatred between Jews and Muslims, which just happens to help bring on the apocalypse so the Jews will all disappear and the Messiah can return, is nice work for a Christian Zionist if you can get.
So we figured this is as good a time as any to make clear, since we haven’t already, that Muzzlewatch does not advocate for the rights of people who are clearly bigots, like Shoebat, David Duke or Israel Shamir. We want a good, fair debate. Let a pure free speech site defend their right to speak. We won’t.
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February 9th, 2007 at 12:50 pm
The value of Shoebat is that he testifies to the mis-education of Palestinian children, out of his own personal experiences.
That is why CAIR wants him stopped.
It is sorry to see that you bought into the CAIR propaganda. You owe him an apology for your comments.
Try actually going to one of Shoebat’s talks some time.
Shoebat is someone that we need to hear, and he has been “muzzled”.
February 9th, 2007 at 12:50 pm
The value of Shoebat is that he testifies to the mis-education of Palestinian children, out of his own personal experiences.
That is why CAIR wants him stopped.
It is sorry to see that you bought into the CAIR propaganda. You owe him an apology for your comments.
Try actually going to one of Shoebat’s talks some time.
Shoebat is someone that we need to hear, and he has been “muzzled”.
February 9th, 2007 at 1:39 pm
I saw Shoebat at Davis on Tuesday. His ability to sing traditional Muslim childhood ditties (about killing the infidels) and his ability to quote Koranic sources (also about killing the infidels), make him rather unpopular in the Muslim community.
The most baffling part of the talk for me was the behavior of about 50 students from the UC Davis Muslim Students Association. They circulated material to those attending the talk regarding potential discrepancies in Shoebats history. During his talk, he addressed these , one by one. He offered to put substaniating video on his website, as well.
Yet the students walked out of the talk, wearing symbolic red tape over their mouths, as though they in fact had been “muzzled”. They did not challenge the speaker during the question and answer period. They seemed determined to play the victims, and largely missed an opportunity to have their voices heard.
What a shame, for all concerned.
February 9th, 2007 at 2:59 pm
As usual, the front group Jewish Voice for Peace, that strives to convince people it is really for Jews, Israel and peace while promoting those who would dismantle the Jewish state (Mitchell Plitnick,its founder has written in the past Jews never lived in the HolyLand and that the Exodus and First Temple are myths), carries out its nefarious disinformation campaign.
The preceding article states Walid is allowed to speak after killing Israelis. This is a patent lie, not that the author would care if Walid had done so. Walid did go on a terrorist mission to bomb the Bank Leumi but threw the bomb away when he saw children in the area. That was his first doubt about jihad. He served time in Israeli jails for rioting but never killed anyone, but nearly killed an Israeli soldier at a riot once as part of the mob.
As for your descriptions of the Rapture, Walid Shoebat does not agree with the interpretations of some fundamentalist Christians as the author above accuses him. He said while at UC Davis he beleives many Christians misiinterpret the Rapture, that in fact he sees it as a struggle that will ultimately overcome the evil that is militant Islam and terrorism, not lead to the extermination of anyone, Muslim, Jew or Christian.
The Muslims Students Association before this event put up a Hamas message board on Facebook, its communications director was found to be related to Hamas terrorists killed by the IDF while shooting missiles from the roof of the family home last July, and one of the organizers even has the Hamas emblem on his Facebook profile and wears Hamas clothing on campus. The MSA in 2002 at UC Davis paid homage to Hassan al-Banna, the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood and forerunner of al Qaeda. Ayman al Zawahiri, the number two man in al Qaeda had al-Banna as his mentor. This support for terrorist groups and terrorists shows the hypocrisy and deception practiced by the MSA and JVFP
as they try to make people think they are anti-terrorist when they in fact support the goals of terrorist groups.
By the way, the local FBI and JTTF and UC Davis police all deny ever receiving a complaint from the UC Davis MSA
about Shoebat being a terrorist. As usual, the claim he was reported as one and should not be allowed to speak was yet one more lie
in the grand deception, Sort if like this blog set up to pretend it seeks peace when it only serves to roil the war in the Middle East against the Jews.
February 9th, 2007 at 4:17 pm
I was at the talk. Regardless of Mr. Shoebat’s theology, he did not say antying Islamophobic and in fact defended peaceful practitioners of Islam.
He says he will defend to the death the religious freedom of those who disagree with him theologically, and he appears to be genuine. What he can not tolerate is the religious oppression that is exercised by segments of the Islamic community against non-Muslims.
In the final analysis, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism etc. are all incompatible with each other. Practitioners of each religion believe the other religions are wrong. This does not make them Islamophobic, anti-Semitic, Christophobic or Hinduphobic. The only problem is when the different people can not live with each other in this world, regardless how we believe we will live with or without each other in the world to come.
February 9th, 2007 at 5:58 pm
Cecilie states: “Shoebat is a religious extremist bigot who doesn’t deserve a platform at a public university. In fact, the question really should be, why are groups giving this guy even a second of airtime?”
It is not true that Shoebat is a religious bigot. I have attended a Shoebat lecture. His purpose is to identify the bigotry with which he was raised by Islamic extremists on the West Bank. His purpose is also to identify that this bigotry by Muslims is, in fact, mainstream.
I am incredulous at the fact that Cecilie advocates for muzzling a good man, right here on the muzzlewatch website! Has she learned nothing?
February 9th, 2007 at 6:09 pm
That is a good point Mike. I’m sure that when JCRC alerted Muzzlewatch to the fact that Shoebat was being “muzzled”, they were aware that Shoebat’s talks primarily raise awareness of an important issue: the education of Palestinian children, as viewed through his own personal experience! I’ve never heard Shoebat attempt to advocate the types of ideas that Cecilie is presenting.
Ceclilie, I strongly recommend that we at Muzzlewatch advocate on Shoebat’s behalf rather than try to concoct reasons to disparage him.
February 9th, 2007 at 6:30 pm
But the real issue, it seemed, which CAIR and the MSA should have kept focused on, was that Shoebat is a religious extremist bigot who doesn’t deserve a platform at a public university.
Religious extremist bigot? Proffer some proof!
Further, how and why is that relevant?
American universities are notorious hotbeds of extremism and exclusionary bigotry - UC Berkeley and SFSU have been in the news often enough about student attempts to muzzle the free speech of others that that should be obvious. And reports of demonstrations at other universities make clear that bigotry is more than accepted IF IT IS THE RIGHT KIND OF BIGOTRY.
The cause of free speech is ill served when muzzling of minority points of view is actually encouraged, as here seems to be the case.
Might you consider rethinking the idea that some people do not deserve a platform?
When we start censoring voices based on such value judgements, we show ourselves unclear on the concepts of a free society and open debate.
February 9th, 2007 at 7:37 pm
UC Berkeley and SFSU have been in the news often enough about student attempts to muzzle the free speech of others that that should be obvious. And reports of demonstrations at other universities make clear that bigotry is more than accepted IF IT IS THE RIGHT KIND OF BIGOTRY.
This is absolutely true. The student council at San Francisco State University has pronounced the defacing (purposely stomping) of homemade Hezbollah and Hamas flag as being in violation of University policy- because they bear the name of Allah in Arabic. But its still perfectly ok to burn an Israeli or American flag.
Yep. Its all about the right kind of biogotry
February 9th, 2007 at 8:42 pm
And don’t forget Walid Shoebat’s little “publicity agent,” Lee Kaplan of Dafka and StopTheIsm.
February 10th, 2007 at 4:25 am
I’m amazed (though only slightly) that those sly devils at the SF JCRC would try to trip you up like that. Next time, tell them you’ll decry any attempts to silence or arrest Shoebat if they’ll host a talk by Joel Beinin to make up for the one their fellow JCRC staffer pressured to have cancelled. Yr readers will recall that the Silicon Valley JCRC helped pressure the Harker School’s headmaster to cancel Beinin’s scheduled talk there.
February 10th, 2007 at 4:30 am
Hey, wow just looked at all the comments. Seems the organizers of Shoebat’s UC David gig asked all the attendees to stay after class & write adulatory comments about Shoebat at this blog.
Quite a fan club we’ve got going here: Lee Kaplan–Jewish liar of the century (well, OK maybe not of the century, but certainly of the decade) & Dan “StandWithUs” Kliman, among others. What an august band of rabid pro-Israel shouters.
Do you folks truly think that by publishing 10 sycophantic comments about Shoebat you’re going to persuade any sincere reader of this blog of the truth of yr claims?
February 10th, 2007 at 9:28 am
Richard, you are not addressing the content of the commentary on this blog; you are simply trying (and failing) to insult the people that you think wrote it.
Shoebat testifies to the hate-mongering he experienced as a child receiving a typical Palestinian education. He even remembers the songs that he was taught as a child, which often were designed to generate hatred of Jews. This is something that everyone, progressive or not, needs to understand.
You seem content to “muzzle” this important information, and then when someone challenges this muzzling, you insult them.
Muzzlewatch indeed!
February 10th, 2007 at 10:31 am
Having not heard Shoebat’s speech, I cannot comment on it. However, anyone who wants an objective study of Palestinian education should read Nathan Brown’s study:
http://www.geocities.com/nathanbrown1/Adam_Institute_Palestinian_textbooks.htm
February 10th, 2007 at 11:08 am
Thanks for the pointer Peter - this is a useful document. Please note that Nathan describes the formal curriculum, not the defacto teaching on the ground. Shoebat is very detailed as to his actual experience, as a youth, in Palestinian schools.
February 10th, 2007 at 6:54 pm
Interesting,
This site talks a lot about “muzzling” critics of Israel, particularly Jewish critics of Israel, by labeling them antisemites.
And then the site attacks Walid Shoebat, an Arab critic of the Palestinians, as a bigot?
The hypocrisy is galling!
February 10th, 2007 at 10:06 pm
Richard claims:
“Yr readers will recall that the Silicon Valley JCRC helped pressure the Harker School’s headmaster to cancel Beinin’s scheduled talk there”
No matter how many times you try to repeat this lie, it will not make it true. Beinin’s talk at Harkers School was not shut down by the JCRC. His participaton was cancelled by the school prinicipal after it was revealed that he would add to, not balance, an anti-Israeli position.
http://www.bluetruth.net/2007/02/joel-beinin-and-muzzlewatch-expose.html
JCRC had not even gotten involved until after the decision had been made.
Please put this lie to bed.
February 11th, 2007 at 12:15 am
Re Beinin: My understanding is that the Harker School already had a pro-Palestinian speaker, and they were seeking a pro-Israel speaker for balance. Somehow Beining got the nod for that initially, which is an obvious error. Parents pointed out the problem and that’s why he was un-invited. I don’t think it’s correct to call this muzzling. The invitation was an error. I don’t think the JCRC was involved in this decision, but it would surely be appropriate for them to assist if called upon.
February 12th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
That sounds like “balance”. It would be un-balanced to have both an anti-Israel Arab speaker and an anti-Israel Jewish speaker. That would demonstrate inherent bias in the programing.
Its important to recognize that simply because a person happens to be of Jewish ancestry doesn’t mean that person articulates a “Jewish” point of view. That would be an astoundingly racist presumption! In the same away that there are those that we accept within the community because they are sincerely “Jewish by choice”, why shouldn’t we accept that there are those that are Jewish by birth but who have elected to be “Not Jewish by choice?” These people should then take great care not to express their opinions as if they are spokepeople for the remainder of Jews or they would be intellectually dishonest.
February 14th, 2007 at 10:56 pm
I recall in the 1970’s an interfaith peace group I belonged to was invited to a temple in the San Fraincisco Bay Area When we were interduced we were shouted out the door by a group of teeagers who had spent the summer in Isreal.How much good has all that hate done? I aslo prtested the Vietnam war outside of the Livermore, Ca Radiation Lab. As I remmeber Joel Binin was in that group.Great to read he is still working for peace.
February 15th, 2007 at 12:57 pm
That post was rather insensitve. Perhaps it was responsive to what they had experienced rather than “hate.” I know that personally, I dislike it when Arabs chant “Kill the Jews” or being called “kafir” or being told to “get back to Germany where I belong so Hitler can finish the job.” Had these teenagers been attacked by Arabs while in Israel or lost a loved one to a terror attack? There are those that still mourn those children slaughtered at Ma’alot. Did you even attempt dialogue or try to understand what these teens were feeling? It is wrongheaded to think that bashing Israel and supporting the Palestinians’ maximalist political demahds is somehow supporting “peace.” Perhaps you should consider volunteering for Zaka in order to really understand how Israelis feel.
February 15th, 2007 at 4:33 pm
As a new reader here, I only see this blog as a tool to entice left leaning Jews into self hatred and Islamo-buttkissers. There was a time I seriously distrusted Shoebat because he was an admitted terrorist in his past. Shoebat did not kill anyone, but that didn’t make him less of a terrorist. What was good was that he saw through the Islamo BS that most of you lefties still don’t. You lefties are all terrorist enablers and self-hating Jews. You are the demise of the Jewish state and land of Israel. I no longer distrust Walid. I met him and heard his words. It took a brave and determined man to speak in front of Muslims who probably want him dead. Silverstein, why do you call Kaplan a liar? Did he expose your friends at the PSM? These Hamas flag waving Jew haters are not your friends. Get real, stop giving into the bully. If you stand up to him he’ll stop taking your lunch money. Loving your enemy or not even recognizing he is your enemy is either stupid or cowardice. “Rabid Israel Shouters?” Be glad only the shouters showed up there and not the quiet ones like the Bnei Elim didn’t show up.
February 27th, 2007 at 4:06 pm
I’ve heard him at a seminar and I agree,he is hated by Muslims because he KNOWS and TELLS how these people are raised vis a vis Jews especially. He fully understands their subterfuges and disemminates this information to we delusional Americans.
As little children they are brainwashed to look at Jews as cockroaches. Any Jew attacking Shoebat is akin to a KAPO.
March 27th, 2007 at 9:59 am
I see that Richard Silverstein is the only voice of reason around here.
walid shoebat certainly does not speak for Islam or for Islam’s followers.
Truly his coffins, I mean coffers are filled with loads of zionist money so that he may perpetually label Islam and all Muslims as EVIL.
Welcome, shoebat, to the zionist industry of instant riches. I can see your intentions clearly.
April 18th, 2007 at 1:55 pm
[…] Critics call Shoebat an Islamophobe with a shady background who tries to play down his anti-Semitic end-times beliefs when speaking on college campuses and in front of adoring pro-Israel crowds. Defenders say he simply tells it like it is about the danger of Islam and the roots of Middle East terrorism, and that everyone needs to hear his message. As I wrote back in February in Muzzlewatch: To understand how disturbing it is that Jewish groups promote a Christian Zionist like Shoebat, it helps to understand the end times belief. […]
June 8th, 2007 at 4:53 pm
“Founded in 1996, Jewish Voice for Peace is a national grassroots peace organization dedicated to promoting a US foreign policy in the Middle East based on peace, democracy, human rights and respect for international law.” While I admire the nobility of this ideal, I marvel at our naivety that we actually believe, even with the strong arm of the U.S. involved, that a lasting foreign policy can be established between Israel and political leaders of Islamic faith when fundamental Islam not only approves of, but even encourages dishonesty (calling it “honorable”) if it furthers the cause of Islam. In other words, it is morally acceptable within the confines of fundamental Islam for a Muslim president to agree to particulars in a foreign policy with a non-Muslim nation (in this case, Israel) knowing fully well he does not intend to honor his side of the bargain…if through his dishonesty he is promoting a “praiseworthy aim” (e.g. the promotion of Islam, territorial expanse of a predominantly Muslim nation, etc.).
Not only did Mohammad himself approve of lying and dishonesty (Life of Mohammad Ihaq ed Hisham translated by Guillaume, pages 367-8 and 519), but Ghazali, the great Muslim scholar clearly spells out this acceptable, “honorable” practice within Islam: “Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible.” (Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri, The Reliance of the Traveler, translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller, amana publications, 1997, section r8.2, page 745.)
In light of the above would it not be wise to glean as much insight as we can into the culture and mindset of those with whom we are trying to negotiate foreign policies—especially if such insight is coming from one who has been personally and intimately acquainted with this very mindset and culture himself? I would strongly encourage those of us who have written Walid Shoebat off to take a deep breath, take a step backwards, draw a bigger circle, set our own bigotry aside and take a second, honest, unprejudiced look at what the man has to say.